7. Due to the fact that once you are bitten you are infected anyway, I always end up grabbing thin-skinned. Will actually help prevent car accidents. ._3K2ydhts9_ES4s9UpcXqBi{display:block;padding:0 16px;width:100%} Traits are divided up into positive traits that cost points to have, and negative traits that give you points to spend. PERSONALLY my ideal car is a Horizon or Dart with a 100/100 performance muffler so I would not want Speed Demon to ruin the stealthmobile. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. When fast forwarding tasks, it gives you enough time to react and kill surprise zombies. Horrible. When choosing traits for a character, remember any skill (other than fitness and strength gets a permanent XP bonus (1- 75% 2- 100% 3+ 125% to that skill, as well as extra level(s.)). Cannot take Wakeful, and also has the opposite effect of Wakeful. Why the hell did i think writing this was a good idea this took like an hour fuck AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. Anything that increases endurance loss will probably get you killed. Possibly the best perk you can take. Waste of one point. and our 2 High Thirst. Don't stand in the cold and rain and you will be fine. It's actually difficult to keep weight on my character with how much I jog around, which as I've found with the Minimal Display Bars mod, burns a ton of calories. I've never found food to be a massive issue in this game, just forage for a few hours and you'll have enough food for the week. Description: Increases the chance of scratches, lacerations or bites breaking the skin. Just sleep through the nights or carry a flashlight, its that easy. Positive Traits: Speed Demon 1/5 Waste of one point. Can be overcome when you build up your stealth skills. This list will show you my personal favorites and make you think of some traits you didnt consider before. I'm considering taking hearty appetite next time. Thanks for the list and the explanations. Only downside is sometimes you have nothing to do in a day, leaving your character to get bored and depressed, but thats what sleeping pills and exercise are for. The XP boosts will be massively helpful too. Those player single player can consider this one 2 free points as in single player you have the ability to speed up and slow down time when you wish. I'm ranking all negative traits from More Traits mod in Project Zomboid!Check my top 10 best traits video: https://youtu.be/XedZcMPudMo-------Join me:DISCORD. Rather than the game auto slowing down from fast forward when you get attacked from behind, the game will auto slow down when a zombie enters that short circle behind your character that you get with keen hearing. Traits Traits are attributes or behaviors that effect how your character interacts with the world. Unfit: Very low endurance, very low endurance regeneration. Like I can be facing forward and hear an out-of-place moan and know that there's a zombie behind me but still not in my perception circle. All rights reserved. The character will not spawn until "Points to Spend" is higher than a negative number or equal to zero. And when You have 9 fitness it's not going to cause any problems, so probably even 4/5 if you have 9 fitness. Probably bugged in the current patch but right now testing has found it to literally have no effect on anything. However, if you go a while without smoking, you will become unhappy until you reach the point of depression. Id always take one of these. It really does much of the same as Fast Reader when it comes to saving time, and you rated that a 2. The ones that can be remedied are, from the top of my head: Very Underweight, Underweight, Overweight, Obese - all weight ones can be managed through nutrition intake. It's not just easy, but the benefit isn't a big deal. And disease can be avoided by spacing out crops. Overweight/Underweight can be remedied with the appropriate food intake, i think you can get desensitised after killing a shit-ton of zombies - not 100% sure tho. Considering how valuable points are this is a massive waste. A lot of people are happy being slowpokes. Although the description of the negative trait says it decreases the player's vision, It appears not to affect the character in any noticeable way. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'setreadygame_com-medrectangle-4','ezslot_8',113,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-setreadygame_com-medrectangle-4-0'); if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'setreadygame_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_16',146,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-setreadygame_com-narrow-sky-1-0');Considering that you can get water through many different sources all the way through the game, I generally consider this free points. I'll pose this question to you all so that a list may be compiled: what are all the negative traits that can go away with time? Before posting try the sledgehammer. Probably gonna go back and alter some things. Funnily enough this is the one negative trait that actually includes a little positive effect as well. Pretty much a non-issue with certain weapons that can consistently one-shot even at low skill levels. Even for multiplayer. Short Sighted: 4/5 I think even when it is functioning (I think it doesn't do anything right now). ._12xlue8dQ1odPw1J81FIGQ{display:inline-block;vertical-align:middle} Gardener: 1/5. Join. First Aid is such a brokenly bad skill it shouldn't even be in the game currently. Which negative traits do you guys usually pick? Also prevents you from using the radio for weather/helicopter event warnings. Ranking All Negative Traits in Project Zomboid Kokoplays MB 53K subscribers Join Subscribe 12K Save 512K views 1 year ago #ProjectZomboid #Build41 I'm ranking all negative traits in. Along with hunger and fatigue,. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America). It's good, but even at max speed boost you can be wasting hours of your real life into this game by taking this trait instead of Fast Reader. It's a metagame thing; really 5/5 because the point of a game is to be enjoyable, not literally waste your time doing literally nothing. With Sunday Driver, your vehicle will not perform when you need it. Don't bother. Possibly the most harmful traits you can take. Still pretty bad for new players. The end result is usually pulling a few more zombies than you would without the trait, making it a decent negative trait for a combat build. In short, when you get injured, just avoid combat and take it easy for a few days and let your wounds heal. Wakeful. Otherwise, 5 free points. -1 fitness, Description: Reduced running speed, low endurance and prone to injury. Pacifist. Large zed groups can be pulled outside, sleeping turned off makes sleep a non-issue, and you actually get the benefit of never getting boredom. It depends on whether youre doing MP or SP In general, Slow Healer, Prone to Illness, High Thirst and Weak Stomach are probably the free-est traits. -2 Fitness, Description: Low strength, low endurance and prone to injury. Of course, some are rendered irrelevant by the extreme end game: Slow reader is not relevant after all books have been read, neither is slow learner after all skills are maxed out / max level is reached. It might make sense for Smoker to eventually be possible to get rid of, but it looks like it's permanent for now (maybe it represents those people who can never truly ditch the addiction, and not just anyone who's addicted). Conspicuous: 3/5. Dont take this. I also play with insane population so you would think inconspicuous would be useful but its actually more helpful to let zombies be able to notice you from a greater distance. Now I just avoid the weight traits to get athletic; but for combat characters I'm going fire officer all the way now. Farming is a pretty essential skill in PZ, and the XP and level boost this gives are nice to have. Not very useful, prevents you from taking prone to illness which is a very good negative trait to take. Towing is broken in the latest update but Sunday Driver has always made towing difficult to impossible. Grinding out strength and fitness is such a chore and almost impossible at the higher levels so Ill at least take either Strong or Athletic, if not both. The bonus to crafted structures is nice too but not a major selling point. How do Project Zomboid traits work, exactly? inconspicuous actually sucks. Basically anything you can put stuff in to. Positive traits are available if you have some extra points spare to use before jumping into the game. You will amass a whopping 8 points to use on some other positive traits as well. Keep up the good work. The combo costs 2 points net for 1 str, 1 axe and 1 sprinting. High Thirst is the easiest negative trait to manage in Project Zomboid, and it gives you an impressive six extra points to spend on positive traits. I play with all loot set to extremely rare except for melee weapons set to rare and guns/ammo set to normal. Negative Trait 1: High Thirst Points Redeemed: 6 Description: Needs more water to survive Starting the list off with one of my favorite negative perks it is time to talk about high thirst. New players are going to be better off with thick-skinned as it makes the game just a little bit more forgiving. Consensus I've gotten from others on Cat's Eyes definitely makes it at least a 3. This will only really become a problem if you are playing in a multiplayer server. This included a list of some of the strongest positive traits that one can pick up in the game. Only worth taking if you have slow modded vehicles. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. The extra speed will often cause you to crash and badly injure yourself, even with cruise control. Feeble, weak - by training strength. Water is easy to obtain. Underweight - 6 points. Reading skill books is often a useful way to pass time and alleviate boredom during times when you don't want to go outdoors- in rain, fog or darkness for example. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. ._9ZuQyDXhFth1qKJF4KNm8{padding:12px 12px 40px}._2iNJX36LR2tMHx_unzEkVM,._1JmnMJclrTwTPpAip5U_Hm{font-size:16px;font-weight:500;line-height:20px;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-bodyText);margin-bottom:40px;padding-top:4px;text-align:left;margin-right:28px}._2iNJX36LR2tMHx_unzEkVM{-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex}._2iNJX36LR2tMHx_unzEkVM ._24r4TaTKqNLBGA3VgswFrN{margin-left:6px}._306gA2lxjCHX44ssikUp3O{margin-bottom:32px}._1Omf6afKRpv3RKNCWjIyJ4{font-size:18px;font-weight:500;line-height:22px;border-bottom:2px solid var(--newCommunityTheme-line);color:var(--newCommunityTheme-bodyText);margin-bottom:8px;padding-bottom:8px}._2Ss7VGMX-UPKt9NhFRtgTz{margin-bottom:24px}._3vWu4F9B4X4Yc-Gm86-FMP{border-bottom:1px solid var(--newCommunityTheme-line);margin-bottom:8px;padding-bottom:2px}._3vWu4F9B4X4Yc-Gm86-FMP:last-of-type{border-bottom-width:0}._2qAEe8HGjtHsuKsHqNCa9u{font-size:14px;font-weight:500;line-height:18px;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-bodyText);padding-bottom:8px;padding-top:8px}.c5RWd-O3CYE-XSLdTyjtI{padding:8px 0}._3whORKuQps-WQpSceAyHuF{font-size:12px;font-weight:400;line-height:16px;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-actionIcon);margin-bottom:8px}._1Qk-ka6_CJz1fU3OUfeznu{margin-bottom:8px}._3ds8Wk2l32hr3hLddQshhG{font-weight:500}._1h0r6vtgOzgWtu-GNBO6Yb,._3ds8Wk2l32hr3hLddQshhG{font-size:12px;line-height:16px;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-actionIcon)}._1h0r6vtgOzgWtu-GNBO6Yb{font-weight:400}.horIoLCod23xkzt7MmTpC{font-size:12px;font-weight:400;line-height:16px;color:#ea0027}._33Iw1wpNZ-uhC05tWsB9xi{margin-top:24px}._2M7LQbQxH40ingJ9h9RslL{font-size:12px;font-weight:400;line-height:16px;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-actionIcon);margin-bottom:8px} ._2cHgYGbfV9EZMSThqLt2tx{margin-bottom:16px;border-radius:4px}._3Q7WCNdCi77r0_CKPoDSFY{width:75%;height:24px}._2wgLWvNKnhoJX3DUVT_3F-,._3Q7WCNdCi77r0_CKPoDSFY{background:var(--newCommunityTheme-field);background-size:200%;margin-bottom:16px;border-radius:4px}._2wgLWvNKnhoJX3DUVT_3F-{width:100%;height:46px} It makes the low speed torque of vehicles almost completely vanish. Stress from being bloody is annoying and can be an issue unless you have a lot of water collectors or are set up by a river. 25% slower xp gain with weapons. Great list! If you don't want to use the skill don't bother, but id encourage anyone to use this skill as much as possible. I'm definitely not confident or patient enough to play that character yet, though! Keep that in mind. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, The subreddit for Project Zomboid. 4 & 5- Always worth considering when making a new character. Strength is difficult to level up, dont take this. And leveling up shooting is fairly easy with so many zombies and a few boxes of shotgun shells. Find the official Discord here: I'll start with the ones I've been able to determine: Feeble Obese Out of Shape Overweight Poor eyesight . Faster speed saves time. If your character is lucky enough to live for a couple of months, claustrophobic will be completely gone. I'd put Dextrous at 3. Plus the fact that each of them gives you 10 whole points to spend on skills is wild. When you want to be a peace-loving character, it makes you less likely to kill zombies with a weapon, but it's a nice trait to debuff your character with. Nimble increases your move speed in combat stance but is almost impossible to level without some kind of boost. Asthmatic: 2/5 very viable since it doesn't actually reduce Fitness, which is what decides how sleepy you get and how fast you attack. @keyframes _1tIZttmhLdrIGrB-6VvZcT{0%{opacity:0}to{opacity:1}}._3uK2I0hi3JFTKnMUFHD2Pd,.HQ2VJViRjokXpRbJzPvvc{--infoTextTooltip-overflow-left:0px;font-size:12px;font-weight:500;line-height:16px;padding:3px 9px;position:absolute;border-radius:4px;margin-top:-6px;background:#000;color:#fff;animation:_1tIZttmhLdrIGrB-6VvZcT .5s step-end;z-index:100;white-space:pre-wrap}._3uK2I0hi3JFTKnMUFHD2Pd:after,.HQ2VJViRjokXpRbJzPvvc:after{content:"";position:absolute;top:100%;left:calc(50% - 4px - var(--infoTextTooltip-overflow-left));width:0;height:0;border-top:3px solid #000;border-left:4px solid transparent;border-right:4px solid transparent}._3uK2I0hi3JFTKnMUFHD2Pd{margin-top:6px}._3uK2I0hi3JFTKnMUFHD2Pd:after{border-bottom:3px solid #000;border-top:none;bottom:100%;top:auto} Too expensive take hiker instead. This is intended to be more a general guide for new players- what to consider taking and what to absolutely avoid. Its also very cheap considering the bonus. I can just imagine wheezing around, unable to run, unable to carry much, struggling to fight off even a single zombie, having to hyper-focus on nutrition, and none of your skills will develop, yikes! I used to not run it, but I think I'll always run it in the future ever since using it. Reduces risk of getting a cold by 90%! Tomatoes do have a reason to be grown in that they can be used in mouse traps (IDK why), however they're still bad because the plants grow too few tomatoes and take too long to grow in comparison to cabbage. Strong, Thick Skinned, Outdoorsman Keen Hearing traits fall under positive traits. Some really great points there, I hadn't realised any of that even after playing with some of these skills for a couple hundred hours lol. I would put Keen Hearing way higher. Impacts combat a lot less than you'd think, especially since your character panics no matter what when they see a horde early-game. Luckily, we will go over some of the best negative traits we like to pick during our playthroughs. Multiple presets can be made to save a combination of a profession and multiple other traits which offer utility to the players that are eager to get right into the action. If an attack is blocked the damage is simply negated. Lastly, the bonus that thick skin provides is so negligible that its not worth the points. Reduces sound. As far as I know it's not like 10-100 times per second or anything like that. I wanna make a full late game character. I'll pose this question to you all so that a list may be compiled: what are all the negative traits that can go away with time? May get you killed from sneaky back attack zombies. Scratches and Lacerations you can heal from but theres no coming back from bites. (It has positive and negative traits in mind) Until next time, stay frosty survivors! Ideally paired with fire officer so you can pick underweight and still keep athletic. Makes driving while towing, or driving already slow/heavy vehicles (especially modded ones) a nightmare.This perk probably wont get you killed, but i fucking hate playing with it. I disagree with the Sunday Driver for one huge reason. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, The subreddit for Project Zomboid. I don't see very many discussions on this topic, and the wikis are barren with which traits can go away aside from those as a result of the recent Fitness update. ._1QwShihKKlyRXyQSlqYaWW{height:16px;width:16px;vertical-align:bottom}._2X6EB3ZhEeXCh1eIVA64XM{margin-left:3px}._1jNPl3YUk6zbpLWdjaJT1r{font-size:12px;font-weight:500;line-height:16px;border-radius:2px;display:inline-block;margin-right:5px;overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;vertical-align:text-bottom;white-space:pre;word-break:normal;padding:0 4px}._1jNPl3YUk6zbpLWdjaJT1r._39BEcWjOlYi1QGcJil6-yl{padding:0}._2hSecp_zkPm_s5ddV2htoj{font-size:12px;font-weight:500;line-height:16px;border-radius:2px;display:inline-block;margin-right:5px;overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;vertical-align:text-bottom;white-space:pre;word-break:normal;margin-left:0;padding:0 4px}._2hSecp_zkPm_s5ddV2htoj._39BEcWjOlYi1QGcJil6-yl{padding:0}._1wzhGvvafQFOWAyA157okr{font-size:12px;font-weight:500;line-height:16px;border-radius:2px;margin-right:5px;overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;vertical-align:text-bottom;white-space:pre;word-break:normal;box-sizing:border-box;line-height:14px;padding:0 4px}._3BPVpMSn5b1vb1yTQuqCRH,._1wzhGvvafQFOWAyA157okr{display:inline-block;height:16px}._3BPVpMSn5b1vb1yTQuqCRH{background-color:var(--newRedditTheme-body);border-radius:50%;margin-left:5px;text-align:center;width:16px}._2cvySYWkqJfynvXFOpNc5L{height:10px;width:10px}.aJrgrewN9C8x1Fusdx4hh{padding:2px 8px}._1wj6zoMi6hRP5YhJ8nXWXE{font-size:14px;padding:7px 12px}._2VqfzH0dZ9dIl3XWNxs42y{border-radius:20px}._2VqfzH0dZ9dIl3XWNxs42y:hover{opacity:.85}._2VqfzH0dZ9dIl3XWNxs42y:active{transform:scale(.95)} You'll never get cold in this game (on default climate settings) with all the access to clothing layers, and how unpowered buildings magically heat for huge amounts. Once you get to a normal weight, its 6 free points. .LalRrQILNjt65y-p-QlWH{fill:var(--newRedditTheme-actionIcon);height:18px;width:18px}.LalRrQILNjt65y-p-QlWH rect{stroke:var(--newRedditTheme-metaText)}._3J2-xIxxxP9ISzeLWCOUVc{height:18px}.FyLpt0kIWG1bTDWZ8HIL1{margin-top:4px}._2ntJEAiwKXBGvxrJiqxx_2,._1SqBC7PQ5dMOdF0MhPIkA8{vertical-align:middle}._1SqBC7PQ5dMOdF0MhPIkA8{-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-ms-flex-direction:row;flex-direction:row;-ms-flex-pack:center;justify-content:center} But if you are looking for positive traits, you can find a link to a guide for the best positive traits below. It's great, I don't know why you think it's bad. Tailoring is a massively overlooked skill and starting XP boosts to tailoring are few and far between. Best Positive Traits in Project Zomboid Build 41, How to cure and fix Nervous Wreck moodle in Project Zomboid, How to barricade and board up windows in Project Zomboid, All Project Zomboid Moodles and how to deal with them, All comments must be on topic and add something of substance to the post, Do not attempt to start a poll in the comments, We reserve the right to remove a comment for any reason, Do not impersonate a staff member or influencer. Claustrophobia on a no sleep MP server is just free points. In particular it allows you to get away with medium-to-low strength. You call it a "waste of points" yet for some reason still give it a 2. Waste of points. You should just rest when you get hurt and avoid combat for a few days so that your wounds can heal. I imagine most players that die in combat die because they weren't backing away fast enough. Oh, you mean in game? .c_dVyWK3BXRxSN3ULLJ_t{border-radius:4px 4px 0 0;height:34px;left:0;position:absolute;right:0;top:0}._1OQL3FCA9BfgI57ghHHgV3{-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-ms-flex-pack:start;justify-content:flex-start;margin-top:32px}._1OQL3FCA9BfgI57ghHHgV3 ._33jgwegeMTJ-FJaaHMeOjV{border-radius:9001px;height:32px;width:32px}._1OQL3FCA9BfgI57ghHHgV3 ._1wQQNkVR4qNpQCzA19X4B6{height:16px;margin-left:8px;width:200px}._39IvqNe6cqNVXcMFxFWFxx{display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;margin:12px 0}._39IvqNe6cqNVXcMFxFWFxx ._29TSdL_ZMpyzfQ_bfdcBSc{-ms-flex:1;flex:1}._39IvqNe6cqNVXcMFxFWFxx .JEV9fXVlt_7DgH-zLepBH{height:18px;width:50px}._39IvqNe6cqNVXcMFxFWFxx ._3YCOmnWpGeRBW_Psd5WMPR{height:12px;margin-top:4px;width:60px}._2iO5zt81CSiYhWRF9WylyN{height:18px;margin-bottom:4px}._2iO5zt81CSiYhWRF9WylyN._2E9u5XvlGwlpnzki78vasG{width:230px}._2iO5zt81CSiYhWRF9WylyN.fDElwzn43eJToKzSCkejE{width:100%}._2iO5zt81CSiYhWRF9WylyN._2kNB7LAYYqYdyS85f8pqfi{width:250px}._2iO5zt81CSiYhWRF9WylyN._1XmngqAPKZO_1lDBwcQrR7{width:120px}._3XbVvl-zJDbcDeEdSgxV4_{border-radius:4px;height:32px;margin-top:16px;width:100%}._2hgXdc8jVQaXYAXvnqEyED{animation:_3XkHjK4wMgxtjzC1TvoXrb 1.5s ease infinite;background:linear-gradient(90deg,var(--newCommunityTheme-field),var(--newCommunityTheme-inactive),var(--newCommunityTheme-field));background-size:200%}._1KWSZXqSM_BLhBzkPyJFGR{background-color:var(--newCommunityTheme-widgetColors-sidebarWidgetBackgroundColor);border-radius:4px;padding:12px;position:relative;width:auto} After about a week in-game you wont be struggling from this anymore. Despite this it is still a very significant issue with stealth, yes. It doesn't make it trash, but it does make it weaker than many people thought. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Only reason it's not 4 is because it's not required. All rights reserved. Prone to illness + outdoorsman somewhat cancel out for +2 points. Thanks for posting your list! Handy: 5/5 literally the only trait to give Maintenance, AND the only trait to give Carpentry. Costs - 2 points (reduces points) Effect - Increases reading speed by 130%. The xp boosts that gymnast provide are pretty useful to keeping you alive in combat so I always take it. Not exact numbers, but a zombie that has a 100% chance to see you on a tile per tick with inconspicuous might only have a 92% chance. It might even be less than 1 per second. Unless TIS changed something Poor Eyesight is permament, used to pick that one and survived for couple of months and it didn't go away but it was long time ago in a galaxy far, far away What about if you quit smoking? Check near gas stations and inside residential homes and youre bound to come across some cigarettes to sate those smoker cravings. I picked ugly, underweight, social anxiety, bald, oversleeper and underachiever. You are correct. Don't really need it if you have a profession that gives maintenance though. Avoid. But even then, you dont have to read books too often when you are leveling your character. Slow reader: 3/5. You can simply plant a couple more crops to get the same effect. Might as well take some extra points if you have to eat a lot anyway. /*# sourceMappingURL=https://www.redditstatic.com/desktop2x/chunkCSS/TopicLinksContainer.3b33fc17a17cec1345d4_.css.map*/I think Keen Hearing is one of the best traits in the game and has kept me alive more times than I can count. I always take wakeful so I have more time for zombie stomping in a day. Keen Hearing: 3/5 simply because it's very useful and pretty much guarantees you'll never be caught offguard by a zombie behind you (at least as long as you're not fast-forward, but even then I think it auto-slows-down). 4 points, too. Even with prone to illness and prolonged periods of being soaking wet I've never caught a cold. The Best Positive Traits in Project Zomboid Build 41. Provides a 30% XP boost on top of existing boosts to ALL skills. Many people don't care about the lost time; at least for single player. I don't see very many discussions on this topic, and the wikis are barren with which traits can go away aside from those as a result of the recent Fitness update. Finding rare weapons is a chore with this. +1. But at that point you might as well give your character 2 extra points in the settings. You still can hear zombies that are sneaking up on you if you're actually listening to the game, the sound is just a bit muffled. I replace hemophobic with claustrophobic, there are a few tricks that make it not a big deal. Not worth it, dexterous is too useful, and the 400% transfer rate is insane. Basically 2 free points. Sleepyhead 1/5. Water is very easy to find, not worth 6 points, stops you from taking high thirst. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. This will get you killed. 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